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[timmy]

i cant fucking believe it...
i have to accept this or i lose my steam games...
fuck you gabe, you fucking sell out.

[timmy]

feels like they got me by the balls,, or i lose 1k worth of steam games.. never thought valve would need to make money through other means than selling video games

[timmy]

Valve's products or services may provide chat, forums, bulletin boards, or instant messaging tools to users. Any information that is disclosed in chat, forums or bulletin boards should be considered public information, and users who message one another may not know each other personally. Valve has no obligation to keep private personally identifiable information that a user makes available to other users or the public using these functions. Users should exercise caution when deciding to disclose personal information in public forums. Users should also be aware that game play information disclosed during multiplayer game play (e.g. player name and current player statistics) is public information and may be displayed to other users.

[rubycalaber]

cant wait for them to put your real name as your username to "discourage griefing" like they tried on the WoW forums

[timmy]

not even steam is safe anymore

[maks]

not nearly as bad as what google and facebook are doing

[rubycalaber]

what are they up to?

I almost died trying to make a new youtube account thanks to googles jew bullshit

[maks]

ever noticed that google gives you ads relevant to the shit you say via gmail?

[rubycalaber]

no since I use hotmail where they cant do that kind of shit since 50% of the emails dont even send properly lmao, use adblock and never visit facebook

I would actually be interested to see what they'd advertise to me since I send some really fucking weird emails

[jon]

does anyone ever actually pay attention to ads, whether they're targeted or not?

[Desolation]

Really does suck. Now when we Google Tim, we're going to find barry's Steam purchases instead of him wearing woman's underwear to impress his internet gf

[timmy]

guess you dont understand what this is about

[rootbeer]

guess i just dont give a FUCK about steam games

[boobz]

or i lose 1k worth of steam games..

:rofl: are we talking linden dollars or imaginary monopoly dollars at that amount?

[timmy]

http://gyazo.com/d03411b594e4e7549265989e251424c8.png?1343831327

go buy a bottle of overpriced alcohol and make a thread about it

[rootbeer]

lol, ur account isnt literally worth 1000 bucks... lolz

[boobz]

http://gyazo.com/d03411b594e4e7549265989e251424c8.png?1343831327

go buy a bottle of overpriced alcohol and make a thread about it

literally 8 years of your life and money you'll never get back. Now take out games gifted to you from dad (m0nde). You can't resell these. You have $1000 worth of worthless stock.

[timmy]

lol, ur account isnt literally worth 1000 bucks... lolz

no shit the resell price isnt 1000, i'd be lucky to get 100 for it.. not that i would actually throw away all those games.
the point is all those games at their full price accumulates to that, i probably spent 700 since a fair few were on special

[m0nde]

rootbeer is having a field day right about now

[rubycalaber]

how much of a loser are you? find out on http://www.steamcalculator.com/

http://gyazo.com/18b67fec657e3b79712f1d13d8fb6324.png

[rootbeer]

yeah and then think about how many of those games you actually play...:hang:

[rubycalaber]

one and its awful

[elezzzark]

Holy fuck, barry is stupid, i told him stop purchasing steam games anymore but he didn't listen to me and keeps purchasing

[elezzzark]

how much of a loser are you? find out on http://www.steamcalculator.com/

http://gyazo.com/18b67fec657e3b79712f1d13d8fb6324.png

Camoron

168 games

$2734.33 USD

[elezzzark]

m0nde

$2377.43 USD


lol divorcied loser

[elezzzark]

it's very weird a 40 years old man can play more than 200 games, it's very weird as fuck.

[FFUUUUUU]

Barry raging ITT.

[m0nde]

lulz, elezzzark who lives in the third world can't imagine someone spending 2000+ real dollars on something for fun

elezzzark, can you wrap your retarded mind around the fact that people living in real countries don't have to worry about things like that?

http://i.imgur.com/nv4An.jpg

[m0nde]

just looking at what that thing was pricing my stuff as. it's totally in accurate. it priced L4D at 20 dollars and L4D2 at 20 dollars. I know I bought them when they were more than that. same with civ v which it prices at 20 dollars.
the whole thing is bullshit, idk where they get those prices.

[Camoron]

i dont think this takes into account ridiculous 75% off sales which is how i bought most of my games

[Camoron]

just looking at what that thing was pricing my stuff as. it's totally in accurate. it priced L4D at 20 dollars and L4D2 at 20 dollars. I know I bought them when they were more than that. same with civ v which it prices at 20 dollars.
the whole thing is bullshit, idk where they get those prices.

probably their current prices

I bought a few games new but yeah most of them I got for like 5-10 dollars

[Camoron]

my account value has gone down to 2694.33, lost 40 dollars in value since 1 day ago I guess :shrug:

probably cuz Skyrim is on sale

[m0nde]

lulz, that thing is bullshit

[maks]

pretty sure it only considers the current price

[Plug Drugs]

SqZNMvIEHhs&autoplay=1

[Plug Drugs]

http://s10.postimage.org/9ofxebtbr/steamid.png

[Garfield]

underdeveloped music tastes in this thread

[Plug Drugs]

holy shit you found a picture of me

[Plug Drugs]

underdeveloped music tastes in this thread

its actually a very deep song about corporations uniting together to enslave us "the spiders all in tune" blah blah blah
its corny conspiracy theory bullshit but that doesnt change the fact that its true and its happening

[maks]

it's still a shitty song by a surprisingly corporate band

[Ramen]

its actually a very deep song about corporations uniting together to enslave us "the spiders all in tune" blah blah blah
its corny conspiracy theory bullshit but that doesnt change the fact that its true and its happening

i'm more worried about the government enslaving us than corporations... damn liberals...

[Plug Drugs]

i'm more worried about the government enslaving us than corporations... damn liberals...
the government and corporations are one;
corporations have billions of dollars to lobby their opinions to the government and make their voices heard; you have no such voice. So when it comes time to passing bills that are designed to enslave the human race, we won't have much of a say in it

Not to mention that most of the big families in politics are rich business owners already

[Camoron]

im more worried about the corporations enslaving the govertnment

[Camoron]

actually it's not really the corporations (which are collections of people to be technical) so much as it is individuals that own the corporations and have billions of dollars being allowed to donate to PACs anonymously with no spending limit

[maks]

big business is substantially weaker than it was at the beginning of the 20th century, if corporations were going to enslave us all they would have done it then. you guys have been watching too much alex jones.

[Camoron]

i dont think corporations are goign to enslave anyone like mind control or whatever but come on, it's no conspiracy that the wealthy want to get wealthier and will corrupt the government with money to do so

over 80% of presidential campaign Super PAC money was donated by just 196 people
94% of the time the candidate with the most campaign spending wins
congressmen spend up to 70% of their days soliciting campaign contributions
SCOTUS upheld Citizens United in a decision that allowed for unlimited anonymous campaign donations

these aren't conspiracy theories about bilderberg or secret societies or NWO, it's just facts

[rootbeer]

money already controls the world idk what u guys are talking about

[Plug Drugs]

at the beginning of the 20th century, they didn't have the ability to enslave us, the technology wasn't available yet

We are already living in a police state compared to European countries; in what other civilized country are you going to get tazed for talking back to a cop who pulled you over for speeding?

[boobz]

im more worried about gaben world company enslaving poor tim abreu and forcing him against his will

[timmy]

enslaved or not, you guys are in charge of the debt that the bankers made, i would be really mad if bankers here ruined a few generations retirement

if the bankers are fucking up the states so much why hasnt some lunatic that lost it all shot one of the bankers yet

[timmy]

i dont think corporations are goign to enslave anyone like mind control or whatever but come on, it's no conspiracy that the wealthy want to get wealthier and will corrupt the government with money to do so

over 80% of presidential campaign Super PAC money was donated by just 196 people
94% of the time the candidate with the most campaign spending wins
congressmen spend up to 70% of their days soliciting campaign contributions
SCOTUS upheld Citizens United in a decision that allowed for unlimited anonymous campaign donations

these aren't conspiracy theories about bilderberg or secret societies or NWO, it's just facts

http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m77tkoajZQ1qzx70zo1_500.jpg

[Camoron]

it's time for the OWN (one warrior nation, oprah winfrey network, etc.) to rise up against the NWO

[rootbeer]

ultimate warrior does motivational videos on youtube now, they are fucking sick

[maks]

i dont think corporations are goign to enslave anyone like mind control or whatever but come on, it's no conspiracy that the wealthy want to get wealthier and will corrupt the government with money to do so

over 80% of presidential campaign Super PAC money was donated by just 196 people
94% of the time the candidate with the most campaign spending wins
congressmen spend up to 70% of their days soliciting campaign contributions
SCOTUS upheld Citizens United in a decision that allowed for unlimited anonymous campaign donations

these aren't conspiracy theories about bilderberg or secret societies or NWO, it's just facts

That's also the way it's always been. The name 'superpac' may be new but the idea of giving assloads of money to your candidate sure isn't. Why are you talking about this like it's something we should worry about for the future when it's the way things have always been?


at the beginning of the 20th century, they didn't have the ability to enslave us, the technology wasn't available yet

We are already living in a police state compared to European countries; in what other civilized country are you going to get tazed for talking back to a cop who pulled you over for speeding?

That's all kinds of uninformed bullshit right there. Europeans have it way worse than us, for the most part they're not allowed to own guns, their freedom of speech is all but gone, and England has closed circuit camera on every single street corner.

[maks]

enslaved or not, you guys are in charge of the debt that the bankers made, i would be really mad if bankers here ruined a few generations retirement

if the bankers are fucking up the states so much why hasnt some lunatic that lost it all shot one of the bankers yet

You're buying into liberal/OWS bullshit. The housing crisis wasn't caused by greedy evil bankers who have the utter audacity to try and make money, it was caused by a feel-good government program put in place by Clinton that forced them to lend money for housing to people they knew damn well weren't going to be able to pay it back.

[Camoron]

it isn't the way things have always been

corporate campaign donations are already WAAAY higher for this 2012 election than they were for the entire 2008 election and it's only August

it's getting worse every election

[maks]

it isn't the way things have always been

corporate campaign donations are already WAAAY higher for this 2012 election than they were for the entire 2008 election and it's only August

it's getting worse every election

when I say "the way things have always been" I mean "with the exception of the few years that mccain-feingold was in effect"

[rootbeer]

here let me oversimplify a very complicated topic

[maks]

It's really not that complicated. Historically the more a government does the more problems it causes, the answer to everything that's wrong with America is to cut programs and eliminate laws.

[rootbeer]

i think we need to move to a tf2 hats based economy, for the epic win

[maks]

"hey I know he worked his ass off to earn those hats but it's not fair that he has 40 and I only have 1 they should mnake a law rthat requires him to give me 75% of his hats after all he'll still have plenty it's about time that greedy cocksucker paid his fair share" -the 99%

[Ramen]

"hey I know he worked his ass off to earn those hats but it's not fair that he has 40 and I only have 1 they should mnake a law rthat requires him to give me 75% of his hats after all he'll still have plenty it's about time that greedy cocksucker paid his fair share" -the 99%

THANK YOU!!! so i guess there's two things you know and that's shit-mouthing, and the whole picture with politics and economics.

btw, that whole "99% vs. 1%" pisses me off. bunch of greedy assholes wanting to force the successful to give away what they EARNED!! fuck the occupy wallstreet fags!!

[Camoron]

when I say "the way things have always been" I mean "with the exception of the few years that mccain-feingold was in effect"

Citizens United not only overturned mccain-feingold but other laws previously enacted as well, including (later, after SCOTUS upheld it) states' laws, some of which had existed since the turn of the 20th century

here is a bar graph of people who were gallup polled and what their opinion is on Citizens United
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/0/08/Citizens_United_v._Federal_Election_Commission_Poll_1.png/479px-Citizens_United_v._Federal_Election_Commission_Poll_1.png

[Camoron]

"hey I know he worked his ass off to earn those hats but it's not fair that he has 40 and I only have 1 they should mnake a law rthat requires him to give me 75% of his hats after all he'll still have plenty it's about time that greedy cocksucker paid his fair share" -the 99%


THANK YOU!!! so i guess there's two things you know and that's shit-mouthing, and the whole picture with politics and economics.

btw, that whole "99% vs. 1%" pisses me off. bunch of greedy assholes wanting to force the successful to give away what they EARNED!! fuck the occupy wallstreet fags!!

this is bullshit, they arent even paying their fair share. Warren Buffet famously stated once that he pays less % of his income in taxes than his fucking secretary. But let's keep voting against our own interests in the hope that maybe one day we can be billionaires and scoff at the law and find tax loopholes too

[Camoron]

and even if RICH PEOPLE HAVWE ALWAYS BEEN ALLOWED TO SPEND DEY MONEY ON ELECTION DONATIONS HISTORICALLY it doesn't make it right, especially now when the richest people are richer than they have ever been

since 1990 the middle class average wage has barely kept up with inflation while the top 1% average wage has risen 136%

[m0nde]

lol at these people arguing politics

[maks]

this is bullshit, they arent even paying their fair share. Warren Buffet famously stated once that he pays less % of his income in taxes than his fucking secretary. But let's keep voting against our own interests in the hope that maybe one day we can be billionaires and scoff at the law and find tax loopholes too

A half a percent of Warren Buffet's income tax is more than his secretary will gross in 10 years, who are you to say that's not enough? seems to me if the government can't balance the budget with the trillions they're bringing in already then they should do what normal people do in that situation and stop spending so fucking much.

[maks]

and even if RICH PEOPLE HAVWE ALWAYS BEEN ALLOWED TO SPEND DEY MONEY ON ELECTION DONATIONS HISTORICALLY it doesn't make it right

whether it's "right" or not is a matter of opinion. what matters is that it would be unconstitutional to stop them.

[m0nde]

lol at people who have no concept of what the rest of the world has and has never had really made any money talking about it

[maks]

Look man all I know is that if someone has the nerve to have more money than me I'm obviously entitled to some of it ok

[m0nde]

quality of life for americans has been going down non-stop since the 50s
everything that could be privatized and their stocks manipulated has been
good luck finding new stuff to fuck up

[Camoron]

whether it's "right" or not is a matter of opinion. what matters is that it would be unconstitutional to stop them.

it's only unconstitutional if you consider money a form of "speech"

even then, some forms of speech are deemed irresponsible and not allowed, such as yelling FIRE in a crowded theater. Free speech has and has always had limits in place to protect against infringing upon our liberties. Commercial speech is not extended the same rights as other forms of speech and it should be considered that corporate campaign donations in exchange for political favors is pretty blatantly a form of commercial speech no matter what loopholes are being used.

considering elections are a matter of public discourse that ought to be fair to rich and poor alike, there ought to be certain laws that prevent anonymous unlimited donations from corrupting that process

[Camoron]

A half a percent of Warren Buffet's income tax is more than his secretary will gross in 10 years, who are you to say that's not enough? seems to me if the government can't balance the budget with the trillions they're bringing in already then they should do what normal people do in that situation and stop spending so fucking much.

How fucked is your logic? Are you really arguing that rich fuckers shouldn't even have to pay the same rate in taxes at the very LEAST as poor people? In what universe is it at all fair or just for a guy that makes 100 million dollars a year to pay 10 million in taxes and can then go out and buy 100 lamborghinis when someone making 40 grand pays 15 of it in taxes and struggles to maintain payments on a single car?

if you were arguing for the flat rate tax I might understand, but you are arguing rich people should pay less than the rest of us because they are technically paying more regardless of the relative MASSIVE FUCKING DISPARITY in income

[maks]

it's only unconstitutional if you consider money a form of "speech"

Even if you don't, do you want to set a precedent where the federal government can tell you what to spend your money on?



even then, some forms of speech are deemed irresponsible and not allowed, such as yelling FIRE in a crowded theater.


So sick of this example and all of the violations of our rights that it's used to justify. Yelling 'fire' is illegal because it basically causes a riot and can kill people. Donating money to someone, or swearing on TV, are not comparable so stop comparing them please.



Free speech has and has always had limits in place to protect against infringing upon our liberties. Commercial speech is not extended the same rights as other forms of speech and it should be considered that corporate campaign donations in exchange for political favors is pretty blatantly a form of commercial speech no matter what loopholes are being used.


Donating money in return for favors is called bribery and has always been illegal. Instead of creating new laws we should try enforcing the ones we already have.

[m0nde]

money is not a form of speech, end of argument

[Camoron]

Even if you don't, do you want to set a precedent where the federal government can tell you what to spend your money on?



So sick of this example and all of the violations of our rights that it's used to justify. Yelling 'fire' is illegal because it basically causes a riot and can kill people. Donating money to someone, or swearing on TV, are not comparable so stop comparing them please.



Donating money in return for favors is called bribery and has always been illegal. Instead of creating new laws we should try enforcing the ones we already have.

The Federal government already tells you what to spend your money on, and more importantly (and more relevantly), what NOT to spend your money on. Putting a cap on campaign donations does not prevent free speech, it merely limits the corrupting influence money can have such as when two fucking oil tycoons make up half of your goddamn campaign contributions.

Just because this particular form of "speech" doesn't immediately cause people to get trampled in a stampede doesn't mean it's not irresponsible and destructive. I don't think there's anything more destructive on a large scale for the people in this country than allowing corporations to buy our government and enact laws that allow them to continue widening the economic disparity and erasing the middle class.

Bribery is hard to prove without hard evidence, and corruption begets corruption so even with proof, who would be willing to go against the corporate conglomerate that effectively owns our government?

[m0nde]

but certain things should be considered rights
and americans for whatever reason don't think health care is a right that a rich country that can very very easily create a national healthcare system should run
there is absolutely no reason why medicine costs even 1 cent in the US
and there is no reason why health care should cost more in the US than it does in fucking third world countries

instead some dumbfuck created the HMO system in the early 60s and then manipulated employee hours so they're not full time so they're not entitled to those benefits
how the fuck does that make sense?

[Ramen]

serious political discussion ITT...

usually i would get involved, but (hell has frozen over) i agree with everything maks has been saying...

[maks]

The Federal government already tells you what to spend your money on, and more importantly (and more relevantly), what NOT to spend your money on.


And your solution to that is to give them more control over your money?



Just because this particular form of "speech" doesn't immediately cause people to get trampled in a stampede doesn't mean it's not irresponsible and destructive. I don't think there's anything more destructive on a large scale for the people in this country than allowing corporations to buy our government and enact laws that allow them to continue widening the economic disparity and erasing the middle class.


The KKK, the neonazis, and the westboro baptist church are irresponsible and destructive. they're also constitutionally protected. They have to be, because we're not just giving lip service to free speech like the european and canadian hypocrites, we actually have it.



Bribery is hard to prove without hard evidence, and corruption begets corruption so even with proof, who would be willing to go against the corporate conglomerate that effectively owns our government?

we'd need honest politicians, which is why it's never going to happen. campaign contributions buy exposure, not votes. The people are still ion control of the electoral process, if they are too dense to look any further than the attack ads on TV then they're getting the government they deserve, and I'm fine with that.

[Camoron]

people can win out over corporate lobbying if the level of public disgust is high enough

historically it's only ever been against "evil companies" like meat packing, alcohol, tobacco, guns, etc.

but the amount of economic damage caused by some of these companies is going to bring a shitstorm similar to what we're seeing now against banks

I only hope it happens before the voice of money speaks louder than the voice of the people (which, again, are pretty uniformly opposed to SCOTUS' ruling on Citizens United)

[maks]

but certain things should be considered rights

WE HAVE A RIGHT TO PAY RETARDEDLY HIGH TAXES FOR SOMETHING WE WILL SELDOM USE! -Canada

[m0nde]

you really think the taxes are that high here?
you think that it's not offset by the fact that you can't even go to the dentist, doctor or get medication when you like?

[m0nde]

one thing that's hilarious is that the aging population in the US does get free healthcare with medicare and they're paying zero taxes to support it
but people like marks have no access to it and are supporting these people
no tax hike is needed, just take even 5% of the military budget and move it to health care to provide some basic coverage for everyone else.

[Camoron]

And your solution to that is to give them more control over your money?
It's not about controlling your money, it's about preventing you from FUCKING UP the federal election system with it. Separation of Church and State used to mean something (and should again) but what about Separation of Corporation and State? Why is it such a controversial stance to say that we shouldn't allow enormous amounts of money given with a very obvious agenda to corrupt our political system?


The KKK, the neonazis, and the westboro baptist church are irresponsible and destructive. they're also constitutionally protected. They have to be, because we're not just giving lip service to free speech like the european and canadian hypocrites, we actually have it.
They are only destructive to people's feelings. Congressman Tim Holden recently brought forward a bill to allow animal waste dumping in Chesapeake Bay. Soon after he received 16,000 dollars in campaign contributions from various agricultural PACs. This is real destruction.



we'd need honest politicians, which is why it's never going to happen. campaign contributions buy exposure, not votes. The people are still ion control of the electoral process, if they are too dense to look any further than the attack ads on TV then they're getting the government they deserve, and I'm fine with that.
All it is is lying to the public by obfuscation and omission. You're right, people should look into things more deeply, but that doesn't excuse what is happening. You say people are okay with it, but they aren't, clearly here I am ion the intenret bitching about it and plenty of others are too, so dont get angry as fuck at them when they try to change things.

[maks]

you really think the taxes are that high here?
you think that it's not offset by the fact that you can't even go to the dentist, doctor or get medication when you like?

I can go to the dentist, doctor, or get medication when I like, I don't even have to wait weeks on end for a slot to open up. In fact, if I have a toothache, I can probably see a dentist tomorrow. It'll cost me a couple hundred dollars, but that's about what you're paying every month for your 13% sales tax on food whether you see a dentist or not.

[m0nde]

13% sales tax is close to what some states pay in the US. for instance, arizona and illinois pay 11.something %
and health care here doesn't involve standing in line at all. the national health care works like any insurance plan
there are private hospitals and there is private insurance here too.

[maks]

one thing that's hilarious is that the aging population in the US does get free healthcare with medicare and they're paying zero taxes to support it
but people like marks have no access to it and are supporting these people


You're right, medicaid is a problem. I don't understand why you believe that expanding it would make it less of a problem.



no tax hike is needed, just take even 5% of the military budget and move it to health care to provide some basic coverage for everyone else.

We should cut the military by way more than 5%, and rather than blowing it on some other needless bullshit we should lower taxes or fund some of the programs that are already in place. You mentioned the 50's as when our quality of life started going downhill, interesting that the 50's right around the time when it suddenly became our job to defend the entire western hemisphere. I wonder how much higher your taxes would be if you had to fund your own military?

[maks]

13% sales tax is close to what some states pay in the US. for instance, arizona and illinois pay 11.something %

As far as I know not a single state pays sales tax on food. Connecticut doesn't.

[m0nde]

absolutely false
go look it up

[Camoron]

tbh I would be all for repealing "obamacare" if I thought it would be replaced with something better

most of the people dont like it, but most of the people also want SOME form of healthcare

of course if the republicans repealed it they'd just leave it alone and we'd go back to having nothing which is definitely worse than something

the funny thing is that obamacare is basically what the republicans suggested back in the 90s when Hilary was trying to get a national healthcare movement going

[m0nde]

food includes restaurant food and groceries and several states do ahve sales tax for that

[m0nde]

funniest thing is that the shitty southern states have some of the highest sales taxes

[Ramen]

As far as I know not a single state pays sales tax on food. Connecticut doesn't.

a lot of states do. tennessee, arkansas, missouri for sure do. montana has no sales tax and has a high income tax but tn has no income tax and high sales.

[m0nde]

tbh I would be all for repealing "obamacare" if I thought it would be replaced with something better

most of the people dont like it, but most of the people also want SOME form of healthcare

of course if the republicans repealed it they'd just leave it alone and we'd go back to having nothing which is definitely worse than something

the funny thing is that obamacare is basically what the republicans suggested back in the 90s when Hilary was trying to get a national healthcare movement goingfuck obamacare, the plan they ended up with is bullshit

the us can offer to all of its citizens what it offers it's government employees and the military
anything less is a joke

[Camoron]

Twenty-nine states and the District of Columbia exempt most food purchased for consumption at home from the state sales tax. New Mexico is the state that most recently eliminated its sales tax on food.

Five states tax groceries at lower rates than other goods; they are Illinois, Missouri, Tennessee, Virginia, and West Virginia. A sixth state, Utah, will reduce its sales tax on groceries effective January 1, 2007.

Six states — Hawaii, Idaho, Kansas, Oklahoma, South Dakota, and Wyoming — tax groceries fully but offer credits or rebates offsetting some of the taxes paid on food by some portions of the population. These credits or rebates usually are set at a flat amount per family member. The amounts and eligibility rules vary, but may be too narrow and/or insufficient to give eligible households full relief from sales taxes paid on food purchases.

Five states continue to apply their sales tax fully to food purchased for home consumption without providing any offsetting relief for low- and moderate-income families. They are Alabama, Arkansas, Mississippi, South Carolina, and (until January 1, 2007) Utah....



i find it funny that the five states that tax groceries fully with no relief at all are some of the poorest states in the country

[m0nde]

ya, the shitty southern states have weird tax policies

[maks]

It's not about controlling your money, it's about preventing you from FUCKING UP the federal election system with it. Separation of Church and State used to mean something (and should again) but what about Separation of Corporation and State? Why is it such a controversial stance to say that we shouldn't allow enormous amounts of money given with a very obvious agenda to corrupt our political system?

yeah I'm not exactly sure how buying someone a TV commercial is fucking up the federal election system. Sounds to me like the real issue here is with voters who give a fuck about fancy expensive commercials and bus tours instead of issues. Idiots, basically. I don't care if each candidate only had a budget of $5, idiots are still going to make stupid descisons in the voting booth it's like a law of nature.



They are only destructive to people's feelings. Congressman Tim Holden recently brought forward a bill to allow animal waste dumping in Chesapeake Bay. Soon after he received 16,000 dollars in campaign contributions from various agricultural PACs. This is real destruction.


You're blaming the campaign contributions for a decision he made before he received them?



All it is is lying to the public by obfuscation and omission. You're right, people should look into things more deeply, but that doesn't excuse what is happening. You say people are okay with it, but they aren't, clearly here I am ion the intenret bitching about it and plenty of others are too, so dont get angry as fuck at them when they try to change things.

I said -I'm- ok with it. I have to be, because it's not going to change. Getting all militantly upset about the way the world works is only going to get pepper sprayed. Fact is, idiots are the majority and in a democracy that means the idiots are in control. No amount of campaign finance reform is going to change that, you cxould spend years removing corporate dollars from the campaigns and in the end we're still going to have a congress full of asswipes. Sounds like a gigantic waste of time to me.

[maks]

food includes restaurant food and groceries and several states do ahve sales tax for that

For tax purposes you're not purchasing food at a restaurant, you're purchasing service. So I was wrong about states with sales tax, fine, sucks to be them. CT doesn't, and I can say beyond a shadow of a doubt that we do not have a federal sales tax so shove it.

[Ramen]

um, one thing i'm going to say... i'm working on a minor in political science with plans to go to law school to study constitutional law, and i'm 110% sure that the constitution does NOT say anywhere "separation of church and state", in fact, it just says that the government shall not ESTABLISH a religion. for example: middle eastern countries have ESTABLISHED the country's religion as islam, and basically non-muslims can gtfo. or like when the constitution was written, the king or queen of england used to establish religions, like the anglican church.

:) ok, done. i'm trying so hard to stay out of this.

[Camoron]

fuck obamacare, the plan they ended up with is bullshit

the us can offer to all of its citizens what it offers it's government employees and the military
anything less is a joke
It's still better than nothing
I don't like having to buy insurance and it's really stupid that poor people who probably need it the most are able to opt out of paying for it because they're too fucking poor (but I guess they get medicaid so whatever?)

but yeah, i like some of the guarantees and more strict enforcement of insurance claims it brings

at least now I can finally get health insurance, if only because I have no choice not to :shrug:

and while I may be paying for it out of pocket, I won't be paying for it in taxes so whatever, it will all work out and most people will have shitty bare minimum coverage with huge deductibles

but again, better than suddenly getting cancer and not having or being able to get any insurance and paying for everything otu of pocket



as for the poor southern states, I saw a video with a toothless hick bitching about Obama and liberals trying to institute socialized medicine and then when he was asked if it was okay to take away his EBT card, medicaid and social security he got really angry and went all Charlton Heston "you'll have to pry it from my cold dead hands" type of shit

[maks]

at least now I can finally get health insurance, if only because I have no choice not to :shrug:


you realize you could have purchased medical coverage at any time since you turned 18 right it's not like obama invented insurance he just forced you to buy it

[maks]

um, one thing i'm going to say... i'm working on a minor in political science with plans to go to law school to study constitutional law, and i'm 110% sure that the constitution does NOT say anywhere "separation of church and state", in fact, it just says that the government shall not ESTABLISH a religion. for example: middle eastern countries have ESTABLISHED the country's religion as islam, and basically non-muslims can gtfo. or like when the constitution was written, the king or queen of england used to establish religions, like the anglican church.

:) ok, done. i'm trying so hard to stay out of this.

no, it actually says "congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion" which means it shouldn't be legislating religion one way or the other and staying completely neutral.

[m0nde]

people in the US have no fucking clue what socialist crap they already have and cling to. it's very strange.

[maks]

people in the US have no fucking clue what socialist crap they already have and cling to. it's very strange.

Once again I'll point out that your plan to rectify this is "America needs more socialist crap"

[Ramen]

no, it actually says "congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion" which means it shouldn't be legislating religion one way or the other and staying completely neutral.

eh, i was paraphrasing but we all get the idea. i didn't feel like going all serious and getting out my constitution, which i actally have a few copies of...

[m0nde]

um, one thing i'm going to say... i'm working on a minor in political science with plans to go to law school to study constitutional law, and i'm 110% sure that the constitution does NOT say anywhere "separation of church and state", in fact, it just says that the government shall not ESTABLISH a religion. for example: middle eastern countries have ESTABLISHED the country's religion as islam, and basically non-muslims can gtfo. or like when the constitution was written, the king or queen of england used to establish religions, like the anglican church.

:) ok, done. i'm trying so hard to stay out of this.hahahahaha, a political science major fucking up some Very veRY basic ideas about religion in teh constitution?

1st of all, everything at the time of drafting the constitution was about christianity and about various sects of christianity. no one had ideas about muslims in america or some fuckers creating their own religion.
they just wanted to make sure some guy wasn't persecuted for practicing a religion, so they tried to separate it completely from government and unlike european countries decided not to tax churches.

[m0nde]

Once again I'll point out that your plan to rectify this is "America needs more socialist crap"missed the point

[Camoron]

um, one thing i'm going to say... i'm working on a minor in political science with plans to go to law school to study constitutional law, and i'm 110% sure that the constitution does NOT say anywhere "separation of church and state", in fact, it just says that the government shall not ESTABLISH a religion. for example: middle eastern countries have ESTABLISHED the country's religion as islam, and basically non-muslims can gtfo. or like when the constitution was written, the king or queen of england used to establish religions, like the anglican church.

:) ok, done. i'm trying so hard to stay out of this.

It says the government shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion

Thomas Jefferson coined the term separation of church and state, and in 1878 the Supreme Court found that the Constitution indeed is not clear in what it means by this, and so they went to the writings of Thomas Jefferson and James Madison who were the architects of religious liberty so as to ascertain the spirit of the law. This is when the phrase "separation of church and state" took hold and it has effectively been upheld since then in matters of religious involvement in government and religious symbols, etc. on public property.

[Camoron]

you realize you could have purchased medical coverage at any time since you turned 18 right it's not like obama invented insurance he just forced you to buy it

yeah, it just wasn't worth it to me

but I don't really have much choice now so whatever

[Ramen]

barry's thread getting some SERIOUS replies!!

[maks]

eh, i was paraphrasing but we all get the idea. i didn't feel like going all serious and getting out my constitution, which i actally have a few copies of...

that's not paraphrasing, it's changing the wording to make it support your position


missed the point

I did, why don't you explain why adding more socialist crap would solve the "There's too much socialist crap in the US" problem


yeah, it just wasn't worth it to me

but I don't really have much choice now so whatever

You admit that your choice was taken away from you, and that you're being forced to buy something that isn't worth it to you, but you're in favor of it? You're brainwashed, brah. There's no two ways about it.

[Camoron]

You admit that your choice was taken away from you, and that you're being forced to buy something that isn't worth it to you, but you're in favor of it? You're brainwashed, brah. There's no two ways about it.
I am not in favor of it for my personal situation, I am saying I don't MIND it for my personal situation. I have actually found some pretty affordable plans.

I am in favor of it vs. not having it as a whole for the country

I am not only thinking of myself

[m0nde]

marks is right about being forced to buy insurance. it's bullshit. that plan is some serious garbage and just served to show obama for who he really is, some guy who is way too out to please people quickly than have teeth and get stuff done.
he should have left it to hilary.

[Camoron]

I did, why don't you explain why adding more socialist crap would solve the "There's too much socialist crap in the US" problem


i dont think he was saying its a problem

[maks]

marks is right about being forced to buy insurance. it's bullshit. that plan is some serious garbage and just served to show obama for who he really is, some guy who is way too out to please people quickly than have teeth and get stuff done.
he should have left it to hilary.

you realize that the system you have is essentially the same thing except there's only one insurance company, right?

[m0nde]

i dont think he was saying its a problemthat's why i said he missed the point. i was answering something you said, camoron about the nigger clinging to his social security but being too stupid to understand that it was socialism.

[Ramen]

maks single handedly won this political debate! bravo!! now go back to being an obnoxious, hateful douchebag because i don't like all this respect i'm developing for you from your political views.

[m0nde]

you realize that the system you have is essentially the same thing except there's only one insurance company, right?as i said earlier, there are multiple private insurance companies here, but you're guaranteed coverage here without any hassles.

some poorer shittier countries in latin america or africa even pay for foreign nationals medical bills, no questions asked
in canada they don't do that

[m0nde]

you should have him lecture for your "political science" degree, ramen

[maks]

maks single handedly won this political debate! bravo!! now go back to being an obnoxious, hateful douchebag because i don't like all this respect i'm developing for you from your political views.

You shouldn't respect me, you're a textbook bumper sticker conservative mouthpiece who has no idea what she's talking about, your opinions aren't even yours you're just parroting rush limbaugh's talking points. I have no more in common with you than I do the OWS protestors.

[Camoron]

marks is right about being forced to buy insurance. it's bullshit. that plan is some serious garbage and just served to show obama for who he really is, some guy who is way too out to please people quickly than have teeth and get stuff done.
he should have left it to hilary.

:shrug: i am not sure we would have gotten anything if he had tried to push through a real universal healthcare bill

again, I am not saying I like it, I am just saying I think it is better than nothing because it can help people who need the help the most such as those with pre-existing conditions, and it has provisions that prevent unjustified rate hikes. It is also supposed to improve protection for consumers against having their legitimate insurance claims denied.

it's like what we already have but with more protections for consumers with the added stipulation that you are required to buy insurance unless you can't afford it

[m0nde]

it wasn't even a compromise. it was some crap that was pushed through, which actually penalizes people without fixing the broken insurance industry in the us.
all it did was get brain washed left wingers to support obama even more, priming them to vote for him again even though nothing substantial was achieved.

[maks]

as i said earlier, there are multiple private insurance companies here, but you're guaranteed coverage here without any hassles.

some poorer shittier countries in latin america or africa even pay for foreign nationals medical bills, no questions asked
in canada they don't do that

Canada's private insurance companies don't take the place of the nationalized healthcare system they just fill in the gaps in coverage, what I said is still true you're being forced to buy CanadaCo(tm) insurance whether you want it or not, the only difference between your system and obamacare is we have more choice.

[Camoron]

how does it not improve things at all?

[Ramen]

You shouldn't respect me, you're a textbook bumper sticker conservative mouthpiece who has no idea what she's talking about, your opinions aren't even yours you're just parroting rush limbaugh's talking points. I have no more in common with you than I do the OWS protestors.

you sure i'm a "textbook bumper sticker conservative"? in fact i am way more libertarian than conservative. i don't listen to limbaugh, either, and i do know what i'm talking about, but i chose to stay out of this discussion.

i basically agreed with 90% of your above arguements. i think that you just don't like the idea that we share similar views on anything.

[maks]

you sure i'm a "textbook bumper sticker conservative"? in fact i am way more libertarian than conservative. i don't listen to limbaugh, either, and i do know what i'm talking about, but i chose to stay out of this discussion.

i basically agreed with 90% of your above arguements. i think that you just don't like the idea that we share similar views on anything.

I call 'em as I see 'em, the fox news crowd loves to make that same exact argument about the establishment clause

[m0nde]

Canada's private insurance companies don't take the place of the nationalized healthcare system they just fill in the gaps in coverage, what I said is still true you're being forced to buy CanadaCo(tm) insurance whether you want it or not, the only difference between your system and obamacare is we have more choice.there is no comparison with a large national plan which guarantees coverage and insurance companies in the us vying for your dollar. the ones in the us will fight to deny your coverage when the time comes. the national plan cannot do that. that's the main thing you're missing.
you've created a straw man argument.

[Camoron]

the problem with libertarians arguing to deregulate everything and let corporations speak(spend) as loudly as they want is they only look at the letter of the constitution without taking into account the spirit in which it was written, a spirit that undoubtedly would not have wanted our politicians to be corporate puppets

[Ramen]

I call 'em as I see 'em, the fox news crowd loves to make that same exact argument about the establishment clause

they may but i don't watch fox news either. lol

[m0nde]

You shouldn't respect me, you're a textbook bumper sticker conservative mouthpiece who has no idea what she's talking about, your opinions aren't even yours you're just parroting rush limbaugh's talking points. I have no more in common with you than I do the OWS protestors.and her saying she's a polsci major and saying the shit she does makes it even more pathetic

[maks]

there is no comparison with a large national plan which guarantees coverage and insurance companies in the us vying for your dollar. the ones in the us will fight to deny your coverage when the time comes. the national plan cannot do that. that's the main thing you're missing.
you've created a straw man argument.

You're right, the national health absolutely will not, and can not, deny you coverage.

And that's why you have private insurance companies to fill in the gaps for situations where the national healthcare service won't cover you.

Makes total sense.

[Ramen]

and her saying she's a polsci major and saying the shit she does makes it even more pathetic

not everyone who studies law is a socialist hipster. :nerd:

[m0nde]

well i'd expect a polsci major to make points that are at least accurate
it doesn't have to be left wing

[maks]

the problem with libertarians arguing to deregulate everything and let corporations speak(spend) as loudly as they want is they only look at the letter of the constitution without taking into account the spirit in which it was written, a spirit that undoubtedly would not have wanted our politicians to be corporate puppets

I think you're wrong, I think this is exactly what they had in mind. The founding fathers were all wealthy land owning businessmen, in fact there's strong evidence that the real reason the marched us into rebellion was so they could reneg on their debts to britian.

[maks]

not everyone who studies law is a socialist hipster. :nerd:

apparently not everyone who studies law knows anything about our single most important constitutional amendment...

[Camoron]

how does it not improve things at all?
m0nde i am curious why you think this
I dont think anyone on the left is saying it's an ideal solution or even a good solution but it's better than having no protections against insurance companies at all isn't it?


and yeah I probably will vote for Obama but only because Mitt Romney doesn't have a shred of integrity in his body. he'd change his gender if it meant getting elected

I'd rather have McCain tbh, I may not agree with a lot of his politics but I respect the fuck out of him when he stands up for what he believes in. Too bad he turned into a typical neocon drone in 2008. if he ran this year without a fucking retard for a running mate as "the maverick" I'd vote for him. Then again Sarah Palin can't be much dumber than Joe Biden, but at least he keeps his gaffes limited to being only domestically embarrassing.

[m0nde]

m0nde i am curious why you think this
I dont think anyone on the left is saying it's an ideal solution or even a good solution but it's better than having no protections against insurance companies at all isn't it?to make the solution that's in place work, the government should have gone after serious insurance reform. they were paid outright to not do that by insurance lobbyists so the plan ended up being a sop to the republicans.

[Ramen]

apparently not everyone who studies law knows anything about our single most important constitutional amendment...

lolicwutudidthere

in my defense, i'm pre-law, and history is my strongest point, law 2nd. 2nd

[m0nde]

lol, that's even more hilarious

[maks]

lolicwutudidthere

in my defense, i'm pre-law, and history is my strongest point, law 2nd. 2nd

Read the treaty of tripoli, it will explain exactly why jefferson would have opposed putting 10 commandment statues in courtrooms

[Ramen]

lol, that's even more hilarious

you know what's hilairous??

me. eating your oreos, bitch!

[m0nde]

i've heard ramen say she's a polsci major on facebook or here several times, but i've yet to see her make an accurate statement that logically fits any point that's being discussed
and that is simply dangerous for a prelaw student :(

[timmy]

i dress my dog in a firefighter suit

[m0nde]

i was waiting for barryshithead to become fixated on me and start attacking me in other threads
good job, timmy

[Ramen]

i've heard ramen say she's a polsci major on facebook or here several times, but i've yet to see her make an accurate statement that logically fits any point that's being discussed
and that is simply dangerous for a prelaw student :(

now if i've been to law school already, then you have my permission to panic.

and maks, yes, article 11 of the treaty of tripoli. it's great, tho i'm not fond of adams, but my boy jefferson betrayed his own ideals once he became president even tho now it's all worked out of course.

[maks]

does australia's national healthcare system cover autism?

[m0nde]

i didn't mean to attack barryshithead, i was just very happy to hear chaykins being brought up again

[Camoron]

how can you not like john adams, this is a man who understood liberty and the rule of law

he also has given us my personal favorite quote of any president which ronald reagan totally fucked up

[Ramen]

how can you not like john adams, this is a man who understood liberty and the rule of law

he also has given us my personal favorite quote of any president which ronald reagan totally fucked up

LMFAO!!! are you fucking SERIOUS?!

two reasons:

xyz affair, and the alien and sedition act.

[Camoron]

John Adams protected a fledgling country from being overtaken by French masters and descending into anarchy

[Plug Drugs]

ill vote for obama if he promises to raise minimum wage again so when i go to pick up paychecks i think to myself "oh i can live comfortably and have money to spare" instead of feeling like i just received my slave provisions

[elezzzark]

Why is everyone whining like faggots?

i wish maks should to shut the fuck up, it has nothing to resolve, anyways ramen and m0nde keep whining like fat losers. They are basically browns and smelly.

[maks]

Why is everyone whining like faggots?

i wish maks should to shut the fuck up, it has nothing to resolve, anyways ramen and m0nde keep whining like fat losers. They are basically browns and smelly.

I never should to shut the fuck up, I care way too much about my country to let disenfranchised youths or canadians ruin it.

[m0nde]

third world retard still living with parents doesn't understand why people would care about their country

[m0nde]

you could grease up a deaf mexican retard and then release him in the woods